My Dad Had Cancer. I Thought We Had More Time. | Dead Dads Podcast | Grief Support for Men

0:00 Speaker 0: He had this shocked look on his face, and I realized that he hadn't Speaker 0: really asked those detailed questions Yeah. Speaker 0: Where I think it was by now. Speaker 0: It was, like, end of November. Speaker 0: And they're pretty much if you do chemo, you probably got six months. Speaker 0: If you don't do chemo, you probably got three. Speaker 0: And I was like, okay. Speaker 1: Losing your dad sucks, but talking about it doesn't have to. Speaker 2: We are not therapists professionally. Speaker 2: We may like to think we are, but we are not. Speaker 0: We give really good advice though. Speaker 1: Mhmm. Speaker 1: Just not medically or therapeutically.

0:40 Speaker 1: Although if you do feel better after it, Speaker 0: that's okay. Speaker 0: You can still you can still listen to us. Speaker 2: But we will bill you for that. Speaker 2: We're also not doctors. Speaker 0: That's true. Speaker 1: We're definitely not doctors. Speaker 1: I once was a doctor, but then was immediately removed from Speaker 1: doctor status. Speaker 2: You just had a lab coat on. Speaker 2: Like, that's not a doctor. Speaker 0: That that was the problem. Speaker 1: Enjoy the next episode of Dead Dads. Speaker 2: I wanna introduce you because this is a person that I, I know. Speaker 1: You're bringing to the table? Speaker 2: I'm bringing to the table today. Speaker 2: This is Tiff Daniels. Speaker 1: Hey, Tiff. Speaker 0: How are you guys doing? Speaker 0: Fantastic. Speaker 0: Welcome to Speaker 1: your Dead Dads. Speaker 1: Thank you. Speaker 2: Welcome to Dead Dads. Speaker 0: For having me. Speaker 2: Tiff, little bit of a spoiler alert because we did talk about this before. Speaker 2: I know we're gonna ask you a couple of questions, but the first question Speaker 2: that I'm interested in is, for for those of you that don't know, we're Speaker 2: relatively new to the podcast game.

1:28 Speaker 2: Mhmm. Speaker 2: This is a concept that Roger and I came up with not that long Speaker 2: ago Speaker 0: Right. Speaker 2: As we're processing the grief of our own fathers, and we were thinking that Speaker 2: there just is not a lot of room in this space. Speaker 2: Not a lot of people who are talking about this. Speaker 0: Mhmm. Speaker 0: So Speaker 2: we did a post on LinkedIn thinking, I wonder who's out there that's interested. Speaker 2: And, Tiff, you were the first. Speaker 2: You were the first person. Speaker 2: You you, almost, it might have been, but it didn't seem. Speaker 2: You almost didn't hesitate. Speaker 0: Right. Speaker 0: You came Speaker 2: up and said and we looked for people that wanted to come and talk. Speaker 0: Yeah. Speaker 2: And you said, yeah. Speaker 2: I'll do that. Speaker 2: You came up. Speaker 2: You messaged me. Speaker 2: I asked you if you were willing to chat. Speaker 2: We chatted. Speaker 2: Yeah. Speaker 2: So I'm wondering, firstly, when you read that post, Speaker 2: what inspired you to come and do that?

2:08 Speaker 2: Because we don't know each other that well. Speaker 2: Yeah. Speaker 2: So you're you're basically offering yourself up to be, you know, somebody new for Speaker 2: a podcast. Speaker 2: I'd like to know what was your inspiration? Speaker 0: Well, it's it's funny because prior to this all starting, you talked about tears Speaker 0: and getting emotional. Speaker 0: Now I almost feel like I might get emotional now, but I think it's Speaker 0: because my father meant so much to me. Speaker 2: Right. Speaker 0: And I'm a father now too. Speaker 0: And I think about every day about what I learned Speaker 0: from him that I can pass on to my children or be a better Speaker 0: person to be a good dad, that kind of thing. Speaker 0: So I just saw it, and I thought that just made sense to me Speaker 0: to Speaker 0: to talk about my story, but I'm sure there's other people out there that Speaker 0: have had some similar stories, shall we say.

2:51 Speaker 0: So Speaker 1: Well, we're really looking forward to learning more about your dad. Speaker 1: Mhmm. Speaker 1: But first, we wanna learn more about you. Speaker 1: Sure. Speaker 1: So let me ask you a question. Speaker 1: When you get home at a at the end of the day, have had Speaker 1: a stressful day Mhmm. Speaker 1: What's something you like to watch or listen to that just calms you down? Speaker 1: Well, Speaker 0: I work from home. Speaker 0: Okay. Speaker 0: So I'm always home. Speaker 0: More I'm home a lot. Speaker 0: I mean, I go out for meetings and stuff like that. Speaker 0: And it's funny you say that because what calms me down if I'm working Speaker 0: home, I'm at home, my my wife's a teacher, she'll be off. Speaker 0: I might be doing the laundry. Speaker 0: When I'm folding laundry, I'm listening to a podcast. Speaker 0: Love it. Speaker 0: So Yeah. Speaker 0: I've just kinda gotten into that little bit. Speaker 2: To that five dollar bill before Speaker 0: anything because it's really Speaker 2: working out.

3:33 Speaker 0: Yeah. Speaker 0: Exactly. Speaker 0: So that keeps me calm and relaxed and everything like that. Speaker 0: But, Speaker 0: yeah. Speaker 2: Do you have favorites? Speaker 2: Ones that you listen to a lot? Speaker 0: I'm sure you've heard stuff you should know. Speaker 0: Oh, I am. Speaker 2: Yeah. Speaker 2: Every dad should listen to stuff you should know. Speaker 0: I just I've I don't know how I got into it a couple years Speaker 0: ago, and I've just listened to it. Speaker 0: I'm like, some of the topics are interesting. Speaker 0: The two guys that run it are they do a good job. Speaker 0: So let's talk about your dad. Speaker 0: Yep. Speaker 1: What was his name? Speaker 1: George. Speaker 1: George. Speaker 1: Yep. Speaker 1: And how long ago did he pass? Speaker 1: Three years ago. Speaker 0: Oh, sorry. Speaker 0: Almost three years ago. Speaker 0: It was February twenty twenty two. Speaker 0: So, yeah, that's almost three years. Speaker 1: So I'm wondering if you could start off by sharing, you know, maybe a Speaker 1: little story about, something that really captures his personality Speaker 1: and and and who he was.

4:21 Speaker 0: Well, I think George, if I'm correct, in Greek Speaker 0: means farmer. Speaker 0: So he though he wasn't a farmer, he loved to, you know, Speaker 0: he loved gardening, loved to have his vegetable patch in the Speaker 0: so that was very much who he was. Speaker 0: And I I realized, when before coming here, Scott was saying, bring some mementos Speaker 0: if you want. Speaker 0: I was looking for this photograph that actually was on that's Speaker 0: not the photograph there, but another one that was actually of him and, Speaker 0: like, Oshkosh overalls. Speaker 1: Oh, like Speaker 2: the old fashioned Yeah. Speaker 2: The old Speaker 0: fashioned overall? Speaker 0: Exactly. Speaker 0: Oh, Oshkosh. Speaker 0: He had a pair of those that he literally probably had since before I Speaker 0: was born, but he was still wearing them until just, you know, the last Speaker 0: year of his life when he'd go work in the garden, in the Speaker 0: summer times.

5:10 Speaker 0: So but it's a great photo of him really smiling and happy, and I Speaker 0: think it was on the cover of the the pamphlet at his, his Speaker 0: funeral Funeral. Speaker 0: And everything like that. Speaker 2: He liked that as far as you can remember. Speaker 2: Like, when you're a kid, was he always outside doing gardening stuff? Speaker 2: Did that come to him a bit later? Speaker 0: I think it a little bit later because he was probably really busy with Speaker 0: work and family when he was younger. Speaker 0: But as he got to retirement, that was a big thing for him was Speaker 0: the gardening. Speaker 0: But I think he'd always had that that, green thumb. Speaker 2: Did you pick that up Speaker 0: from him? Speaker 0: No. Speaker 0: Not really. Speaker 0: Well, maybe a little bit because I used to be a landscaper, and I Speaker 0: love mowing my lawn in that part of it. Speaker 0: But I hate pulling weeds, and I don't don't give me a garden because Speaker 0: I'm like, that's I'd rather go to the Speaker 2: grocery store. Speaker 1: Can have a garden in Vancouver.

5:50 Speaker 1: It's Speaker 2: it's so hard when your dad is good at something and Yeah. Speaker 2: Like, oh, that must have passed along to Speaker 0: you. Speaker 2: Not kidding. Speaker 2: No. Speaker 2: No. Speaker 2: Not so much. Speaker 0: I don't I don't wanna deal with gardens. Speaker 0: So what was your dad's job in Speaker 1: the family? Speaker 1: Like, what was his unofficial title? Speaker 1: You know, what was his goal? Speaker 0: He he was old school money went money money maker, breadwinner, whatever you Speaker 0: wanna say it. Speaker 0: Like, I had a pretty traditional my parents were pretty traditional where Speaker 0: even when my mom worked, she was a teacher. Speaker 0: My father was a salesman and an entrepreneur, but it was really about Speaker 0: him going out there and and doing a good job to support the family. Speaker 0: And my father being in sales, I'm I I'm in sales as Speaker 0: well.

6:30 Speaker 0: I always remember years ago my mom saying to me, one of the most Speaker 0: important things of my job is, this is my mom saying this, is making Speaker 0: sure your father's happy because a good a happy salesman is a good Speaker 0: salesman. Speaker 0: Yeah. Speaker 0: And I'm like, yeah. Speaker 0: You're right, mom. Speaker 0: Like, it's about a frame of mind and a mindset. Speaker 0: And if you're in a good frame of mind, you're a better salesperson, and Speaker 0: you're able to help people find those solutions. Speaker 0: So yeah. Speaker 0: Did he Speaker 2: this is a presupposition, but a lot of, determined salespeople have, like, a Speaker 2: mantra. Speaker 2: They have, like, a key thing that they use over and over again. Speaker 0: Mhmm. Speaker 2: I'm borrowing a page from Roger's dad here because I know he has an Speaker 2: expression that he repeated over and over again, which was what was it again? Speaker 2: Supply and demand? Speaker 0: Oh, yes. Speaker 0: Supply and demand. Speaker 1: He always just say there was this thing.

7:11 Speaker 1: Like Right. Speaker 1: Roger, it's all about supply and demand. Speaker 1: Yeah. Speaker 1: Supply and demand. Speaker 2: Did your dad have anything that the it's a two part question, which is, Speaker 2: did he have anything he said? Speaker 2: And is it the thing that kind of haunts you? Speaker 2: Can you still hear him say it? Speaker 0: I I don't know if it's specifically about sales, but power of positive thinking Speaker 0: was was his his thing. Speaker 0: That's great. Speaker 0: And, Speaker 0: and I don't know if he said this. Speaker 0: It's more of the I think it's an old, Speaker 0: maybe are you Rudyard Kipling poem, if it's to be, it's up to me Speaker 0: or something. Speaker 0: There's a there's a saying in there. Speaker 0: So it's just about, you know, being self accountable and being positive. Speaker 0: That's my father was very much that type of person. Speaker 0: So it's definitely rubbed off on me for sure.

7:52 Speaker 2: So he's an entrepreneur. Speaker 2: He's a salesperson at heart. Speaker 2: Yep. Speaker 2: He's a gardener. Speaker 0: Cultivates. Speaker 2: He's a cultivator. Speaker 0: He's a cultivator. Speaker 2: Building this personality for him. Speaker 2: Is there, a way that his friends would have described him? Speaker 2: Like, if you if we were to bring in anybody that knew him, probably Speaker 2: different than you knew him Yeah. Speaker 2: How would they describe him? Speaker 0: Pushy? Speaker 0: Yeah. Speaker 2: Great. Speaker 2: Sounds like a true friend. Speaker 2: It's a true friend. Speaker 2: And we'd like them to call in. Speaker 0: My my father was very because of who he he was just he was Speaker 0: always involved. Speaker 0: He was he was all he was he was, involved in charities, Speaker 0: and he was in Kiwanis Club, and he was the president of a of Speaker 0: a, cottages association that we we we're luck Speaker 0: I'm very grateful, very lucky to have grown up to be able to go Speaker 0: to a cottage or a cabin, shall we call it.

8:40 Speaker 2: Is there an association for cottage? Speaker 0: Yeah. Speaker 0: In in where we were, in Ontario where the cottage was. Speaker 0: So he became the president of that, and he's just always involved Speaker 0: in the community and giving back. Speaker 0: But because of who he is as well, he's a bit of a bit Speaker 0: of a go getter. Speaker 0: He'd be kind of in people's faces and, like, let's move this along. Speaker 0: Let's make this happen and all this stuff. Speaker 0: So he could be considered a bit pushy, but I think people would say Speaker 0: that, but they mean it in a positive positive Speaker 1: light. Speaker 1: Sounds like very, like, Napoleon Hill, Vince Norman Vincent Peele, like, Speaker 1: positive thinking. Speaker 1: Yeah. Speaker 1: You know? Speaker 0: Yep. Speaker 0: Yeah. Speaker 0: Did he Speaker 2: have lots of friends? Speaker 2: Yeah. Speaker 2: This is a hard thing for some men as they get older to keep Speaker 2: these friend groups up.

9:21 Speaker 2: Yeah. Speaker 2: But he was a kind of a guy who had lots of social pursuits Speaker 2: kinda. Speaker 0: Yeah. Speaker 0: Yeah. Speaker 0: There was, this funeral, there was a lot of people Mhmm. Speaker 0: That were luckily were still around because he lost, you know, the you know, Speaker 0: you get older and, you know, you lose a lot of you you'd talk Speaker 0: to my dad. Speaker 0: He's like, oh, you know, so and so, they just passed away. Speaker 0: I'm sorry, dad. Speaker 0: And then so and so just passed away. Speaker 0: It happens a lot as they're luckily, he my father was eighty six. Speaker 0: Oh, wow. Speaker 0: Good long life. Speaker 0: Yeah. Speaker 0: But, there were still a lot of people at his funeral as well that Speaker 0: knew him very closely, but also, not as close, but just Speaker 0: knew him through business or through his volunteer work. Speaker 0: And we're like, I'm gonna go pay respects. Speaker 1: So Did you, Speaker 2: find out anything at the funeral that you were surprised?

10:02 Speaker 2: Because, again, this is a guy you knew your whole life. Speaker 2: Yeah. Speaker 2: This is and I'm this happened to me a little bit too, but people Speaker 2: would come up and tell me this story Right. Speaker 2: Of my father, and I think, like, eighty years almost, I've known this guy. Speaker 2: I've never heard this story before. Speaker 2: Was there any sort of, like, insight into his character that Speaker 1: He was a juggler? Speaker 0: I don't know. Speaker 0: Yeah. Speaker 2: Any character insight that got that's been shined on the light maybe, at the Speaker 2: funeral or afterwards that you learned about him? Speaker 2: That's Speaker 0: a really good question. Speaker 0: I don't top of my head, I don't think so, but I met people Speaker 0: that he talked about over the years that I'd never met before. Speaker 0: Yeah. Speaker 0: So I met them at the funeral. Speaker 0: He's not wild. Speaker 0: Oh, you're that person. Speaker 0: Oh, you're that person. Speaker 0: So that well, that was kinda cool to put a a face to a Speaker 0: name of of people that were influences to him or he was an influence Speaker 0: on them.

10:48 Speaker 2: It's so fascinating because their character continues after they pass, Speaker 2: I always think. Speaker 2: And so you're still I'm still learning about who my dad was. Speaker 2: You know, he died in twenty twenty one, and I'm still learning a little Speaker 2: bit like, oh, he was actually a slightly different person, and I'll meet a Speaker 2: new person sometimes that that knew him. Speaker 1: When my dad died, it was interesting because a lot of my friends came Speaker 1: out of the woodwork to tell me just how much he meant to them. Speaker 1: Like, he was like a mentor to them. Speaker 0: Oh, right. Speaker 0: Yeah. Speaker 0: Although I would have had Speaker 1: no idea. Speaker 1: Like, they they didn't necessarily have dads growing up, and they didn't they didn't Speaker 1: really have, like, a, you know, a a formal mentor relationship, but they all Speaker 1: came up to me more like, yeah. Speaker 1: He anyways, it was it was really touch touching to hear that. Speaker 1: So Speaker 0: That's great. Speaker 2: Yeah.

11:29 Speaker 2: How Love it. Speaker 2: Did he go? Speaker 2: So it was twenty twenty two. Speaker 2: So Yes. Speaker 2: Post we're sort of out of the COVID era. Speaker 0: Yeah. Speaker 0: Yeah. Speaker 0: So Speaker 2: Is he in this neighborhood? Speaker 2: You said No. Speaker 0: No. Speaker 0: I grew up. Speaker 0: I'm I'm from Ontario originally. Speaker 0: I've been out here twenty five years, though. Speaker 0: Okay. Speaker 0: And they he was, in Ontario, Speaker 0: well, for for his final days, but what for many, many years, of course. Speaker 0: And, Speaker 0: yeah, it was I think it was about the summer of twenty twenty one. Speaker 0: My brother lives out and lives close by to where my parents Speaker 0: lived. Speaker 0: And and I would see my parents every summer because we'd fly back and Speaker 0: go spend time with them at the cottage and and all this stuff.

12:09 Speaker 0: And, Speaker 0: he just seemed to getting older, but I'm like, okay. Speaker 0: Well, you are eighty five and all this stuff, but he seemed just a Speaker 0: bit thinner. Speaker 0: He was all he was a runner. Speaker 0: Mhmm. Speaker 0: Yeah. Speaker 0: He was always very, conscious about about eating well Speaker 0: and everything like that. Speaker 0: So he was always more of a on a thin side. Speaker 2: But you see the notice because you're going away and coming back. Speaker 0: Yeah. Speaker 0: So I noticed, and my brother said something. Speaker 0: He said, dad, you know, he just seems a bit, you know, thinner. Speaker 0: I'm like, okay. Speaker 0: Okay. Speaker 0: And then in the fall of twenty one, he started seeing some Speaker 0: doctors, and they're like, oh, you've got cancer. Speaker 0: And then in the fall so I started going out back and forth a Speaker 0: little bit more. Speaker 0: And it was interesting because I think Speaker 0: I I don't know if if it happens with a lot of Speaker 0: with people when when they get this news from a doctor, if they they Speaker 0: just gloss over it or not.

13:01 Speaker 0: But I talked to him, and I'm like, so, dad, if you ask the Speaker 0: question, like, what what what exactly are the routines Speaker 0: you gotta go through? Speaker 0: What are the what are the the, the the things you can do to Speaker 0: either kill it or get over it or whatever, chemo, pills, Speaker 0: this, whatever it is. Speaker 0: Mhmm. Speaker 0: Oh, well, blah, blah, blah. Speaker 0: And I'm like, but you haven't asked detailed questions. Speaker 0: You're giving me just vague answers. Speaker 0: Yeah. Speaker 0: So I ended up flying back a number of times and going with my Speaker 0: dad to the doctor's appointments. Speaker 0: You advocated. Speaker 0: And and and literally was in one of them and and asked a question. Speaker 0: So if he does this, how long what's the probability of success in life? Speaker 0: Right. Speaker 0: If he does this, what's the probability? Speaker 0: What's this? Speaker 0: And we came out of there with definitive answers, and he had a shocked Speaker 0: look on his face.

13:45 Speaker 0: And I realized that he hadn't really asked those detailed questions Yeah. Speaker 0: Where I think it was by now. Speaker 0: It was, like, end of November. Speaker 0: And they're pretty much if you do chemo, you probably got six months. Speaker 0: If you don't do chemo, you probably got three. Speaker 0: And I was like, okay. Speaker 0: Well, dad, this is this is where we are. Speaker 0: And then, of course, like, if you do chemo and you get Speaker 0: six months, I mean, that's the the there's that one to three percent chance Speaker 0: you might survive. Speaker 0: Yeah. Speaker 1: And it's not a fun six months. Speaker 0: You know, exactly. Speaker 0: Difficult. Speaker 0: Yeah. Speaker 0: Yeah. Speaker 0: So he ended up going, okay. Speaker 0: Well, I'm gonna do chemo. Speaker 0: I'd like to spend one more summer at the cottage, which is kind Speaker 0: of our family home, shall we say, because it my parents got it back Speaker 0: in the late oh, sorry.

14:29 Speaker 0: Mid sixties. Speaker 0: Wow. Speaker 0: So I grew up lucky enough to go there as a kid. Speaker 0: My parents loved it there. Speaker 0: They kinda retired to there, stuff like that. Speaker 0: And they've got lots of friends in the community there as well. Speaker 0: But, when, Speaker 0: when he was told this, he's like, okay. Speaker 0: I'm gonna do chemo. Speaker 0: And we're like, okay. Speaker 0: Great. Speaker 0: Let let's do that. Speaker 0: And and then, dad, I gotta fly back to to back home, Speaker 0: see my family, but I'll be back out for Christmas. Speaker 0: We'll spend Christmas together. Speaker 0: We'll bring the whole family out. Speaker 0: And then at about two weeks later or after two or three weeks into Speaker 0: the chemo, he's just like, I can't do this. Speaker 0: This is, like, just destroying me. Speaker 0: Right. Speaker 0: And he's like, I think I realized that this is this is it. Speaker 0: So, you know, I don't know how long I'm gonna survive and all this Speaker 0: stuff, but I'm not gonna do chemo, and I'm just gonna spend my final Speaker 0: days doing the most I can.

15:17 Speaker 0: And so I just flew back and forth back and forth to see him Speaker 0: as much as possible. Speaker 0: Yeah. Speaker 2: You said something which actually I think is more common, which is, Speaker 2: the scenario where the person that's dying has been presented with Speaker 2: this information Speaker 0: Yeah. Speaker 2: And then has to inform their children Speaker 0: Yeah. Speaker 2: And doesn't have enough information. Speaker 2: Yeah. Speaker 2: And the children are incredibly frustrated. Speaker 2: Yeah. Speaker 2: Because, it's pure. Speaker 2: It's clean. Speaker 2: You've been given a diagnosis. Speaker 0: Yeah. Speaker 2: Like, why can't you remember this information? Speaker 2: And I think it's very common. Speaker 2: And then I think to myself, imagine being like again, you mentioned this. Speaker 2: At their age, everybody they know is getting sick Speaker 0: Right. Speaker 0: And Speaker 2: dying. Speaker 2: And so they're hearing the prognosis that they know Speaker 0: Yeah.

15:59 Speaker 2: Of their friends have had. Speaker 2: Right? Speaker 2: And so Speaker 1: And they're also, you know, runners, and they have a healthy lifestyle. Speaker 1: Yeah. Speaker 1: And it's like the kid's on me, and I'll be fine. Speaker 1: And Right. Speaker 1: You know, also, you know, not wanting to worry you and the family and Speaker 1: grandkids. Speaker 2: Yep. Speaker 2: I used to get them to record it. Speaker 2: That's what I used to do because I would be able what? Speaker 2: Their doctor's visits. Speaker 0: Oh, Speaker 2: okay. Speaker 2: I would get them to just turn on their phone and Speaker 0: get Speaker 2: them to just leave it in the middle and say, you know Speaker 0: Yes. Speaker 2: Make sure that the doctor knows. Speaker 1: Can't imagine my dad knowing how to turn on Speaker 2: his phone. Speaker 0: That was Speaker 2: my And there was Speaker 0: no comedy because he was call people? Speaker 0: Is that Speaker 2: what a phone is for? Speaker 0: You call people? Speaker 2: Yeah. Speaker 2: Exactly. Speaker 0: Or if you get stuck in your car and you need to call, you Speaker 2: know We could do a whole segment on FaceTiming your parents. Speaker 0: Yes. Speaker 0: Exactly. Speaker 2: But it was incredibly it was a gift because I think the pressure to Speaker 2: deal with the realization of of the prognosis and also to try to capture Speaker 2: the scientific information Speaker 0: Right.

16:49 Speaker 2: Seems like a bit difficult. Speaker 2: And I'm I'm sure your dad did as best as he could, but also Speaker 2: great that you were able to come out there and Yeah. Speaker 2: And advocate for him. Speaker 1: Yeah. Speaker 1: So when Go ahead. Speaker 1: When he when he told you that Speaker 0: Yeah. Speaker 0: What was your reaction? Speaker 0: I think my first reaction was like, okay. Speaker 0: That makes sense as to why he's even thinner than he normally is. Speaker 0: Right. Speaker 0: Were you alone? Speaker 0: But but Speaker 2: when he told you are you wondering when he told you that he was Speaker 2: gonna stop chemo? Speaker 2: Because he was gonna Speaker 0: stop the stopping chemo or when he first found out he had cancer. Speaker 1: When he first found out he had Speaker 0: cancer. Speaker 0: Yeah. Speaker 0: Yeah. Speaker 0: I can't remember exactly where I was or how he he Speaker 0: probably told me on the phone because, yeah, I was out here.

17:31 Speaker 0: I I think my first reaction was, okay. Speaker 0: What are we gonna do? Speaker 0: Like, what Yeah. Speaker 0: What I and that's kind of who he is too. Speaker 0: He's like, okay. Speaker 0: You've got a problem. Speaker 0: Let's find a solution. Speaker 0: Totally. Speaker 0: You got a problem? Speaker 0: How are we gonna work through this? Speaker 0: You got a problem? Speaker 0: Who's gonna help you? Speaker 0: How what do you have to do to help yourself? Speaker 0: Who's gonna provide support? Speaker 0: Stuff like that. Speaker 0: What do we know? Speaker 0: What do we not know? Speaker 0: Exactly. Speaker 0: So I think that was what was going through my mind, and it was Speaker 0: just, okay. Speaker 0: I've got a a family with young kids. Speaker 0: I have responsibilities here. Speaker 0: How do I make sure I can go see him, and work with Speaker 0: my brother who's in the same community, but just also make sure and then Speaker 0: support mom as well. Speaker 0: Mhmm. Speaker 0: So it's just all those different things about, well, what do I do and Speaker 0: how do we, you know, get involved and Speaker 1: You get into kinda logistics mode while also Speaker 0: robotic in a way.

18:20 Speaker 1: Yeah. Speaker 1: But also shocked, I'm assuming. Speaker 1: Yeah. Speaker 1: Yeah. Speaker 1: Because it's your dad. Speaker 1: And you also have to be there for your family and there for your Speaker 1: mom, and it's it's a lot. Speaker 2: Yeah. Speaker 2: What did you tell your kids? Speaker 2: Or did you tell your kids? Speaker 2: Because they would've been Speaker 0: Yeah. Speaker 0: Three or Speaker 2: four years ago, so doing Speaker 0: them Yeah. Speaker 2: Three years ago. Speaker 2: So No. Speaker 2: They're in they're just teens. Speaker 0: Right? Speaker 0: They're just teens. Speaker 0: Yeah. Speaker 0: Yeah. Speaker 0: So so my my daughter would have been nine and my son probably about Speaker 0: eleven at the time. Speaker 0: I think we told him that that papa, as they've Speaker 0: called him, had cancer, and he's not well. Speaker 0: And, but, you know, at that age, nine eleven, they're like, okay.

19:02 Speaker 0: Someone's sick. Speaker 0: So when are they gonna get better? Speaker 0: Right. Speaker 0: And I don't think they realized it until pretty much when it Speaker 0: happened because even though we went Chris because it was February when he passed. Speaker 0: So we're there for Christmas. Speaker 0: So he was still we spent time with them and everything like that. Speaker 0: And then, Speaker 0: but but I think they realized that they may or may not see him Speaker 0: again, but then they came out to see him in his final days. Speaker 0: Mhmm. Speaker 0: So Speaker 2: I only ask because I think it's you know you're gonna be around your Speaker 2: kids and all this stuff's gonna happen. Speaker 2: And then when do you Yeah. Speaker 2: Start to inform them? Speaker 2: How do you keep them engaged? Speaker 2: How do you give them time, I guess, is Speaker 0: the Speaker 2: question that I'm wondering. Speaker 1: And in those final days, where where was he? Speaker 1: Who was around? Speaker 1: What was the what was that like?

19:44 Speaker 0: Oh, his final day he was in hospice in Collingwood, Ontario. Speaker 0: And, so we were able luckily, able to get him into that one Speaker 0: into one. Speaker 1: So he said I'm I'm gonna stop chemo. Speaker 0: That was about, middle of December. Speaker 0: First week of December, he said I'm stopping chemo. Speaker 0: Right. Speaker 0: Okay. Speaker 0: And, and then we'd already planned to come out for Christmas to see Speaker 0: him and my mom and my brother. Speaker 0: And and then we were there for, like, Speaker 0: ten days or something like that, and we spent every day together. Speaker 0: And and, and then everyone went Speaker 0: home. Speaker 0: And then I think it was probably, early Speaker 0: January when then he was able to get a bed at the hospice, and Speaker 0: he was still moving fine.

20:30 Speaker 0: Like, right up to his last days, his his brain was totally amazing Speaker 0: and Yeah. Speaker 0: His wits about him and everything was just his body shutting down. Speaker 0: Yeah. Speaker 0: Yeah. Speaker 0: But we were we were all there in in the room the Speaker 0: day like, a few hours before he passed. Speaker 0: And then Speaker 0: Sorry. Speaker 1: No. Speaker 1: It's alright. Speaker 0: And just what Mhmm. Speaker 0: And then that day Water them if you want. Speaker 0: Thank you. Speaker 0: And then and then we were there. Speaker 0: We saw him for a number of days in a row. Speaker 0: And then he just like, he could just see. Speaker 0: He he was like, I'm ready to go. Speaker 0: I'm ready to go.

21:11 Speaker 0: He'd say that over, you know, number of times. Speaker 0: We'd always talk about stories, everything like that. Speaker 0: And then there was that day where he just said to the nurses, Speaker 0: I think today's the day. Speaker 0: Now and, I think he was he was so weak and everything like Speaker 0: that. Speaker 0: He didn't have get MAID. Speaker 0: Mhmm. Speaker 0: But he they basically the the nurses, like, you know, he doesn't need Speaker 0: MAID. Speaker 0: We can just give him some extra morphine tonight, and he won't wake up. Speaker 0: Right. Speaker 0: And so we we all knew that we're saying goodbye to him right then Speaker 0: and there. Speaker 0: And we went back to the house where my mom lives, where I used Speaker 0: to live, and Speaker 0: just had dinner, and then we got a phone call about nine thirty that Speaker 0: night from the hospice to say he passed.

21:52 Speaker 0: Yeah. Speaker 0: Yeah. Speaker 0: It's Speaker 2: such a weird time to go back to the home Yeah. Speaker 2: Afterwards. Speaker 2: I found that, like I don't know what your experience was like. Speaker 2: Like, you go into that house and it's different. Speaker 2: Mhmm. Speaker 0: And then Speaker 2: you're just like, well, what what is the thing what are we supposed to Speaker 2: do? Speaker 2: What's the yeah. Speaker 0: What's the Speaker 2: what activity do you think? Speaker 0: Protocol? Speaker 0: Yeah. Speaker 2: Did you guys sit? Speaker 2: Did you We we share stories? Speaker 2: What did you do when you got home? Speaker 0: Yeah. Speaker 0: We did. Speaker 0: We shared stories, but we got dinner ready. Speaker 0: And, like, it's on the the my son's birthday day. Speaker 0: Oh. Speaker 1: Yeah. Speaker 1: Wow. Speaker 1: So his his dad died on his sister's birthday. Speaker 0: Yeah. Speaker 0: So so we're basically going back to have birthday dinner for my son. Speaker 0: Oh. Speaker 0: And but we knew it was all happening, but we're kind of hoping, even Speaker 0: though they gave him the extra morphine, we're thinking, could it maybe happen at Speaker 0: twelve o one?

22:38 Speaker 2: Could you just pause it Speaker 0: and take it to pause it. Speaker 0: Yeah. Speaker 0: And literally, my wife looked at me and I said, well, you know, maybe Speaker 0: that that's what might happen, but it might not. Speaker 0: And then when we got the call about nine thirty, I think my kids Speaker 0: have maybe gone to bed by then anyway. Speaker 0: But we got the call. Speaker 0: I'm like, oh, well, it is actually on his birthday. Speaker 0: So whatever. Speaker 0: Eastern? Speaker 0: I know I was doing the Yeah. Speaker 0: Yeah. Speaker 2: So then you're tasked with you're in the house, and you're obviously in Ontario. Speaker 2: Did you were you the one who had to start to do the paperwork? Speaker 2: Was there other people? Speaker 0: Because Yeah. Speaker 2: It's such a weird process, which is like, okay. Speaker 2: That's over, and then there's this work Right. Speaker 2: That pops up. Speaker 0: Yeah. Speaker 0: No. Speaker 0: I I did most of that because, one, I think my mom was a Speaker 0: bit I mean, she was she was helpful, but I took it on. Speaker 0: I no disrespect to my brother, but it's more my forte to deal with Speaker 0: paperwork and stuff like that than his.

23:24 Speaker 0: So I was the one driving a lot of that to to happen, but, Speaker 0: yeah, you don't realize all the different things you gotta do and Right. Speaker 0: And you gotta communicate with and the lawyers and the and the That's Speaker 2: a law. Speaker 0: Funeral home and and the government and all this stuff. Speaker 0: Yeah. Speaker 1: And in in the moment when it happened, you, you know, you've got all Speaker 1: this family around you and your mom. Speaker 0: Yeah. Speaker 1: It sounds like you're the your your job in the family is you you Speaker 1: got you you got your shit together. Speaker 2: Glued? Speaker 1: Yeah. Speaker 1: I'm curious. Speaker 1: Did you feel this Speaker 0: pressure to hold it all together? Speaker 0: Yeah. Speaker 0: I I believe I did. Speaker 0: Yeah. Speaker 0: I I can't deny that. Speaker 0: I can be very stoical, so I just thought, you know, it's just it Speaker 0: is what it is.

24:07 Speaker 0: And we but but you you know with with death, you you're Speaker 0: you're gonna grieve, and it's gonna hit you at weird times. Speaker 0: And But we don't know. Speaker 0: Well yeah. Speaker 0: Sorry. Speaker 0: You don't know. Speaker 0: But, yeah, you just deal with it. Speaker 0: Yeah. Speaker 0: I think that's it. Speaker 0: You just kinda deal with it. Speaker 0: Right? Speaker 2: Yeah. Speaker 2: I'm interested in this because I think not to put your situation in mind, Speaker 2: the processing and the grief kinds to put on a shelf a little bit Speaker 2: while you get into the paperwork. Speaker 2: Yeah. Speaker 2: And there is a certain amount of workload that you can kind of distract Speaker 2: yourself with where you're eliminating all these things and closing up all these loose Speaker 2: ends. Speaker 2: Was there a Speaker 0: Checking things off. Speaker 0: Yeah. Speaker 0: I can talk. Speaker 0: That one's done. Speaker 0: Yeah. Speaker 0: We got to put board out. Speaker 0: Yes. Speaker 0: Yeah. Speaker 2: Yeah. Speaker 2: This is all good. Speaker 2: This is done. Speaker 1: What's the status on the on the cell phone bill?

24:48 Speaker 2: Yeah. Speaker 2: Have we cleared that? Speaker 0: Yeah. Speaker 0: Exactly. Speaker 2: Yeah. Speaker 2: Was there a process or was there a time when you you Speaker 2: started to realize that that checklist was starting to become shorter? Speaker 2: You're starting to think, okay. Speaker 2: I'm I'm actually getting through this checklist, and now this the the rest Speaker 2: of time is starting to stretch out. Speaker 2: And were you aware of any difference in yourself as that started Speaker 2: to happen? Speaker 0: Well, I think the check like, I think, initially, you think that checklist is Speaker 0: something you're gonna check off in a few weeks, then you realize, oh my Speaker 0: god. Speaker 0: This is like a one to two to three year process Yeah. Speaker 0: When someone passes between all the all the stuff that happened. Speaker 1: Just proving that they're actually dead Speaker 0: Yeah. Speaker 1: Is just a lot of work. Speaker 0: Exactly.

25:28 Speaker 0: I have that Speaker 2: certificate of death. Speaker 2: How Speaker 0: many copies of Oh, Speaker 1: I know. Speaker 0: They've been dead. Speaker 0: Do I have? Speaker 0: And was I mailing out to people Speaker 0: and organizations. Speaker 0: And each Speaker 1: organization has a different rule for submitting it and what Speaker 1: like, there should be a Yeah. Speaker 1: A a anyway, there should be a law where it's Speaker 0: just all the same. Speaker 2: I know. Speaker 2: Yeah. Speaker 2: So he he's in the jelly of the month club? Speaker 2: Yeah. Speaker 2: We're gonna need to see a certificate of that. Speaker 0: Yeah. Speaker 0: Exactly. Speaker 0: We're Speaker 2: gonna keep sending him the jellies unless yeah. Speaker 0: It's insane. Speaker 0: Oh, even. Speaker 0: There was some subscription thing. Speaker 0: Then I was like, okay. Speaker 0: I'm you're on the phone. Speaker 0: Like, sorry. Speaker 0: My father's passed away. Speaker 0: He does not need this anymore. Speaker 0: Can you please cancel? Speaker 0: Oh, well, I'm not sure yet. Speaker 0: Can you give me a why would I make this up? Speaker 1: Right. Speaker 1: He's not watching Netflix anymore.

26:11 Speaker 1: Exactly. Speaker 1: I could promise you that. Speaker 0: Yeah. Speaker 0: And going through his computer, like, my mom would like, she never touched computers. Speaker 0: Like, literally, the only time she was on a computer when my father said, Speaker 0: Ruth, come over here. Speaker 0: I need you to type something up because I'm doing this. Speaker 0: And can you just at least type it a little bit and and then Speaker 0: I'll send it? Speaker 0: And so she didn't touch computer. Speaker 0: So all of a sudden, I had to get in control of his computer Speaker 0: because he was, you know, he was on Facebook, and he'd had all these Speaker 0: different things. Speaker 0: So it's like, well, how do you shut this down, and what do I Speaker 0: do about this? Speaker 0: And and so that was and and then again, like, again, no disrespect to Speaker 0: my brother, but he my brother's not even super tech savvy. Speaker 0: He'll probably listen to that stuff. Speaker 0: Don't be a jerk. Speaker 0: But, anyway Speaker 0: but but, no, he'll admit it.

26:52 Speaker 0: He'll he'll agree. Speaker 0: He'll agree. Speaker 0: He'll agree. Speaker 0: He'll he'll agree. Speaker 0: He'll he'll agree. Speaker 2: He'll he'll guess next week. Speaker 0: Yeah. Speaker 0: Exactly. Speaker 0: He's right there. Speaker 0: Yeah. Speaker 0: He's here today. Speaker 0: Anyway, so so they're just doing that stuff, but we know the whole process Speaker 0: takes takes a while. Speaker 0: But I think to Speaker 0: then the the besides the checking things off and doing the things Speaker 0: you've got to do and not realizing how much stuff there is to do, Speaker 0: it then was, hey. Speaker 0: How do I make sure that my children are okay? Speaker 0: Yeah. Speaker 0: My wife, who's become very fond of my father, is okay, but more importantly, Speaker 0: my mom. Speaker 0: How's my mom doing? Speaker 1: And how was she doing? Speaker 0: And, Speaker 0: she's she's pretty strong, but she had a, you know, strong on the outside Speaker 0: and falling apart on the inside at some level.

27:37 Speaker 0: But, I think she I think, like, they were Speaker 0: you know, it's it's always I always look back, and I think there was Speaker 0: a number of times over my life where I'm like, god. Speaker 0: If I can have a marriage and a partnership like my parents had Right. Speaker 0: I'd be doing pretty well and because they were a good partnership and a Speaker 0: loving couple and, just a great a great couple. Speaker 0: Anyway, so I was like, okay. Speaker 0: I gotta make sure my mom's okay, and I'm and she was very stoical Speaker 0: about two. Speaker 0: She's like, hey. Speaker 0: Well, I gotta keep moving on. Speaker 0: But then she as the days went by, she's like, I don't know if Speaker 0: I can. Speaker 0: She started getting very, like, Speaker 0: con concerned with herself whether or not she can survive without her partner Speaker 0: in crime.

28:20 Speaker 0: Mhmm. Speaker 2: Like, the day to day tasks you started to No. Speaker 0: It's not the day to day goal. Speaker 0: It's the emotional. Speaker 0: I've now lost my part my my lover, my best friend, my husband. Speaker 0: Like Right. Speaker 0: I've lost that person who keeps me going and is part of everything Speaker 0: I've done. Speaker 0: They're very both very social and and and, you know, with Speaker 0: a lot of friends and stuff, and now their her partner is not there. Speaker 0: So luckily, my mom was in a in Collingwood where she Speaker 0: grew up originally. Speaker 0: Mhmm. Speaker 0: And then they moved to Toronto, and I grew up in Toronto. Speaker 0: And then they moved back to Collingwood, Ontario, Speaker 0: later in life, and she retired there. Speaker 0: But she still had all these old friends from way back when or who Speaker 0: had moved there them themselves Right.

29:01 Speaker 0: Later in life. Speaker 0: So she had a a good network, but I'm like, mom, you got all Speaker 0: these friends here, and you got all these she's like, yep. Speaker 0: But they're not my best friend. Speaker 1: Yeah. Speaker 1: So And it's hard to hear that from your mother. Speaker 1: I I I don't know what your relationship was like with your mom, but Speaker 1: that is, like, the ultimate level of vulnerability. Speaker 1: Yeah. Speaker 1: To hear that from your parents in that moment is just I I Yeah. Speaker 1: I found it heartbreaking when I I felt I heard something similar coming from Speaker 1: my mom as well. Speaker 1: Just you know it's coming. Speaker 1: You you you see it. Speaker 1: Yeah. Speaker 1: You know, you see it coming, but when it actually happens, you're just like, Speaker 1: woah. Speaker 2: Yeah. Speaker 2: But do you Speaker 2: do you become your dad in a certain way? Speaker 2: Like, she she has needs Yeah.

29:44 Speaker 2: The of certain things. Speaker 2: Right? Speaker 0: Like Yes. Speaker 2: And who's she gonna ask? Speaker 2: And you're obviously no shade against your brother because that's Yeah. Speaker 2: But it's it sounds like it's gonna be you. Speaker 2: And so there's this scenario where you're like, suddenly, not only is my dad Speaker 2: not here that I have to deal with Yeah. Speaker 2: But also I am him. Speaker 2: Right. Speaker 2: Is that a signal? Speaker 2: Or Speaker 0: Funny enough you say I am him. Speaker 0: Like, one of the feelings is when my dad passed was like, okay. Speaker 0: I'm the oldest male in my family. Speaker 0: Right. Speaker 0: I am now my dad. Speaker 0: Wow. Speaker 0: And my own, Speaker 0: like, belief of, like, oh my god. Speaker 0: I'm suddenly like, wait a second. Speaker 0: How old am I? Speaker 0: Oh my god. Speaker 0: Okay. Speaker 0: My dad died at eighty six. Speaker 0: Oh, that's, like, thirty years from now for me.

30:26 Speaker 0: Right? Speaker 0: Or at the time was thirty three. Speaker 0: I'm like, oh, wow. Speaker 0: I'm closer to death than I am birth. Speaker 0: Okay. Speaker 0: Oh, yeah. Speaker 0: This is, this is interesting now. Speaker 0: Put down cheeseburger. Speaker 0: Somebody said it to me, and I Speaker 1: interesting now. Speaker 0: Put down cheeseburger. Speaker 0: Somebody Speaker 2: said it to me, and I don't know. Speaker 2: This is a visual that I always get is, like, until your until your Speaker 2: dad dies, and he's there's a roof on your house Speaker 0: Yeah. Speaker 2: And then suddenly, there's no roof. Speaker 2: And the rain just lands directly on your head. Speaker 0: Right. Speaker 2: Yeah. Speaker 2: And you're like, oh, so I'm the one now. Speaker 2: I'm the roof. Speaker 0: I yeah. Speaker 2: Suddenly, I'm shooting Speaker 0: the roof. Speaker 0: Analogy. Speaker 0: I love that. Speaker 2: And the feeling of pressure Mhmm. Speaker 2: Is is considerable, I think. Speaker 0: We're Speaker 2: starting to think, jeez, what do I need to do to be am I Speaker 2: ready for that level of Speaker 0: Yeah. Speaker 2: Of responsibility?

31:07 Speaker 2: So I did that hit you, or is that just hitting you now? Speaker 0: Oh, no. Speaker 0: That hit me very soon after it was passed. Speaker 0: Like, right away, pretty much. Speaker 0: I was like, oh, wow. Speaker 0: That's now I'm I'm my dad. Speaker 0: I'm the oldest guy. Speaker 0: I'm now, you know, gotta be a rock and be whatever. Speaker 1: And and where where are you at with that now? Speaker 0: Yeah. Speaker 0: I don't think I'm as emotional as I was when I first kind of Speaker 0: had that realization. Speaker 0: I think what's happened over the last you know, coming to terms with my Speaker 0: father's passing, it's to me people when someone Speaker 0: I found when when he passed, people like, oh, what do you what do Speaker 0: you think about all the memories, and you think about all the stuff in Speaker 0: the past.

31:50 Speaker 0: And tell me some stories. Speaker 0: And I'm like, I I'm I'm not the best storyteller per se, or Speaker 0: I don't think I am. Speaker 0: But I'd be like, it's not about the stories I had with him. Speaker 0: It's about who he helped me become in my head and in my heart. Speaker 0: And and and I think every day, I try to be Speaker 0: a good person. Speaker 0: So I think my father my father was not perfect by any means, but Speaker 0: he had, in general, he was a good good person. Speaker 0: And so I'm thinking, okay. Speaker 0: What are all the things he's taught me? Speaker 0: And so that's where I'm at now. Speaker 0: It's like, let just keep living. Speaker 0: His memory is now in me, in my mind, in my heart, and be Speaker 0: the person I could be that he probably was trying to instill in me Speaker 0: when I was eight, ten, twelve, eighteen, twenty seven, thirty Speaker 0: two, you know, etcetera.

32:38 Speaker 0: Right? Speaker 2: Is there a thing that you do or have done recently that you're Speaker 2: surprised that you actually went, oh, this is his thing that I got from Speaker 2: him. Speaker 2: So it sounds like there's some obvious things that you can you can draw Speaker 2: a line to, but I'm sometimes there's these surprises. Speaker 2: You're like, you've inherited a a trait or a characteristic or even a Speaker 2: way of thinking Speaker 0: Yeah. Speaker 2: That has come to light just recently or after he passed. Speaker 0: Oh, I I definitely could say there is. Speaker 0: I I can't think of, like, top of my head now, but a hundred Speaker 0: percent. Speaker 0: There's like you'll do something like, oh my god. Speaker 0: That's what my dad would do. Speaker 2: That's what Speaker 0: that's what my dad would say. Speaker 2: Or Oh, that's the weirdest. Speaker 2: Oh, that's the weirdest. Speaker 0: My dad would have said that. Speaker 0: I'm like, alright. Speaker 0: Try to get to my father. Speaker 1: And then your wife and then your wife calls it out and is like Speaker 1: Yeah. Speaker 1: You sound like your dad.

33:18 Speaker 0: Yeah. Speaker 0: Yeah. Speaker 0: Yeah. Speaker 0: Exactly. Speaker 2: He I never like, your laugh is a natural thing that is that is Speaker 2: in you. Speaker 2: Right? Speaker 2: It's supposed to come from you and and a creation of everything. Speaker 2: And up until my father passed away, I laughed one way. Speaker 2: Right. Speaker 2: And then after he passed away, I I somebody told me this thing, and Speaker 2: I went, Speaker 2: which is which is his weird chuckle, which never was my laugh before. Speaker 2: And I was, you know, I was turning around like, where Speaker 0: is he? Speaker 0: Where does he come from? Speaker 2: This laugh came out of nowhere. Speaker 2: Yeah. Speaker 2: And my sister, she was like, I What was that? Speaker 2: She was like, what was that? Speaker 2: And I was like, oh, it was it was the weirdest feeling of just Speaker 2: being inhabited. Speaker 2: Right. Speaker 2: And this laugh still exists. Speaker 2: I can't get rid of it. Speaker 2: I can't shake it. Speaker 1: He's in you.

33:58 Speaker 0: He's in you. Speaker 0: Yeah. Speaker 0: Exactly. Speaker 0: It's a Speaker 2: spooky thing. Speaker 2: Yeah. Speaker 2: So yeah. Speaker 2: So I glad you don't have that paranormal scenario. Speaker 0: Yeah. Speaker 0: No. Speaker 0: No. Speaker 2: You said something too, which I thought was interesting, which is that there's a Speaker 2: servicing of other people's expectations. Speaker 2: They come up to you, and they want stories about your dad or they Speaker 2: wanna know things. Speaker 0: Right. Speaker 2: How do you handle that when someone comes up to you and says, like, Speaker 2: oh, you know, I'm sorry your dad died. Speaker 2: And then they're performatively kinda talking to you about your grief. Speaker 2: Right. Speaker 2: Is that a familiarity to you, and how do you handle it? Speaker 0: When you just mentioned your story about, you know, thinking your father was Speaker 0: behind you with your laugh, the one thing that's happened to me is Speaker 0: more very vivid dreams where your my father and Speaker 0: now my mother because she passed as well a couple years ago, is that Speaker 0: they'll come into my dreams or they'll be in a dream, and I will Speaker 0: literally wake up thinking that they're in the room.

34:53 Speaker 0: Like, it's it's not like a like, it's like they inserted themselves Speaker 0: into a dream, like, from above or from wherever they are. Speaker 0: Right? Speaker 0: Right? Speaker 0: So I have those every once in a while, and I wake up really Speaker 0: emotional. Speaker 0: Like, oh my god. Speaker 0: I miss my father so much or my mother. Speaker 0: And but it's like because the dream is just not that normal, weird dream Speaker 0: where people just happen to be in a room. Speaker 0: Right? Speaker 0: This is where they talk to you. Speaker 0: And you're like, but, dad, you're dead. Speaker 0: Oh, it's okay. Speaker 0: I came back today to talk to you about something. Speaker 0: Oh, do you remember when this happened or whatever? Speaker 0: And it's one of those sort of conversations. Speaker 0: I have those. Speaker 0: I wish I had those. Speaker 2: Have you ever you've never had your dad Speaker 0: or your Speaker 2: dad before? Speaker 1: In fact, when when he passed, one of the things I asked him or Speaker 1: I said to him was, you know, hey.

35:35 Speaker 1: You don't know where you're going. Speaker 1: I don't know where you're going, Speaker 0: but Speaker 1: I just hope that at some point you come and visit me in whatever Speaker 1: form. Speaker 1: And I always think about, like, could it come in a dream or could Speaker 1: it be someone so it's interesting to me. Speaker 1: I was like, no. Speaker 1: That'd be that'd be awesome. Speaker 1: Yeah. Speaker 1: It hasn't happened yet. Speaker 0: It is awesome, but it's very emotional because you wake up from the dream Speaker 0: and you go, god. Speaker 0: That's a dream. Speaker 0: Damn it. Speaker 0: I wish that was not a dream. Speaker 0: I want him to be here now No. Speaker 0: Yeah. Speaker 0: To continue the conversation. Speaker 0: Usually, it's it's a real life conversation or a dream conversation you're having. Speaker 0: Yeah. Speaker 0: It feels Speaker 1: like it feels so real. Speaker 1: There's no there's no yeah. Speaker 0: The and then and then suddenly, it it ends, and you're like, but but Speaker 0: I had more questions. Speaker 0: I wanted to talk about something else or whatever. Speaker 0: And it's Awesome. Speaker 0: Did you Speaker 1: see the Blue Jays? Speaker 1: You know? Speaker 0: Well, exactly. Speaker 0: He would have loved Speaker 1: to see the Blue Speaker 0: Jays.

36:16 Speaker 0: I mean Totally. Speaker 1: He was a huge fan. Speaker 1: He would have loved to have been there for that. Speaker 1: Mine mine too. Speaker 1: Yeah. Speaker 1: So, you know, we're we're now at the stage of of of Speaker 1: grief. Speaker 1: Where do you think you're at with it all right now, and and how Speaker 1: do you think you're doing with it? Speaker 1: Because it's not Yeah. Speaker 1: There's no rule book. Speaker 1: Yeah. Speaker 1: What what, you know, what what do you think is is is working for Speaker 1: you? Speaker 1: What is is there anything missing? Speaker 1: Like, where where do you think you're at right now? Speaker 2: Because what I heard from you say, which I think is very admirable, it's Speaker 2: about checking in my mom, and she's passing away now. Speaker 2: It's about checking in my wife. Speaker 2: It's about making sure my kids are okay. Speaker 0: It's Speaker 2: about there are a lot of people with whom we care and are Yeah. Speaker 2: Concerned with keeping the roof over their heads.

37:00 Speaker 2: The roof is not over your head. Speaker 2: How do you how are you managing with that? Speaker 2: Like, is that do you let that hit you, or do you kind of Speaker 2: keep that in a in a scenario? Speaker 2: What's the what's the real life feeling for it? Speaker 0: Well, I think the real life thing is is making sure that my children Speaker 0: still know about their pop up. Speaker 0: Mhmm. Speaker 0: Right? Speaker 0: Because there was only a short period of time that they had with them, Speaker 0: and then but I know and, obviously, him being out east and we're out Speaker 0: west. Speaker 0: So when they spent time together, it was only for a few weeks of Speaker 0: every year, but it was pretty condensed. Speaker 0: Mhmm. Speaker 0: And they would go and do stuff and all that. Speaker 0: So I just wanna make sure that they've got photos, and we talk about Speaker 0: them and and and that those types of things. Speaker 0: So to me, that's really important so that they can as they grow, Speaker 0: they still remember when they were six and nine before he passed Speaker 0: and and all that stuff.

37:47 Speaker 2: Do you have a special thing that you do to keep him alive? Speaker 2: Like, do you have a commemorative, like you mentioned Speaker 0: Yeah. Speaker 2: His birthday maybe or something? Speaker 2: Is there is there a date of the calendar that kind of gets reserved Speaker 2: for him? Speaker 2: No. Speaker 0: But you said there's not a special date? Speaker 0: No. Speaker 0: No. Speaker 0: It's just But it's I have Speaker 2: to keep him alive, I think, Speaker 0: in the memory. Speaker 0: It's keep him alive, and I do reference them. Speaker 0: And and my children do have photos of them with my father Speaker 0: and with my mother, like, in their rooms. Speaker 0: Mhmm. Speaker 0: And they're there, so they see them. Speaker 0: And I'm actually really sometimes they're surprised because, you know, kids' rooms can be Speaker 0: the disaster zones, and things could go missing. Speaker 0: And then but seems that those photos don't go missing. Speaker 0: They're always there, and they've always made sure.

38:28 Speaker 0: So and when I bring them bring up my my my father and Speaker 0: mother and and they still have fond memories, and they they talk Speaker 0: about things. Speaker 0: Like, my daughter sometimes gets a little bit emotional. Speaker 0: Like, I I miss nanny and papa. Speaker 0: Mhmm. Speaker 0: But, I think that's to me is the big thing is making sure that Speaker 0: they're thinking about them. Speaker 1: You brought some fur photos with you. Speaker 1: I I I would love to, learn more about them. Speaker 0: Yeah. Speaker 0: So this is actually a photo of me and my brothers as little kids. Speaker 0: And even though it's not my father, the reason it's important is because we're Speaker 0: sitting in an old wooden boat on Lake Abays Mhmm. Speaker 0: In Ontario where the cottage is. Speaker 0: So which one are you? Speaker 0: So I'm the super blonde one in the red, like, pajamas.

39:12 Speaker 2: I like this outfit. Speaker 2: I like this outfit. Speaker 0: I mean, this Speaker 1: is, like This Speaker 2: is a good Speaker 0: looking nineteen seventy four or five, probably. Speaker 0: Beautiful. Speaker 0: And then my younger brother's in the middle, and my older brother's the top. Speaker 0: He passed away a number of years ago. Speaker 0: So so it's just three and I think so it's it's about seeing my Speaker 0: brothers, but it it reminds me of my mom and dad because Speaker 0: of being lucky enough and grateful enough to be able to go to a Speaker 0: a summer cottage and spend time together as a family and friends and everything. Speaker 1: Six and a half, two, and four. Speaker 0: Right. Speaker 0: And, Speaker 2: you're no stranger to grief. Speaker 2: You're mentioning several things. Speaker 2: Your mom's passed away. Speaker 2: Yeah. Speaker 2: Your older brother's passed away.

39:52 Speaker 0: Yeah. Speaker 0: So My mom passed away two years ago Yeah. Speaker 0: Or almost two years ago. Speaker 0: And then my brother Speaker 2: a few years after your dad. Speaker 0: Like, sorry. Speaker 0: One year after your dad. Speaker 2: After your dad. Speaker 0: Yeah. Speaker 0: Yeah. Speaker 0: And my older brother passed away in, I think, it was two thousand three. Speaker 2: So oh, so Speaker 0: Yeah. Speaker 0: So quite a few years back. Speaker 2: Difficult situation. Speaker 2: Yeah. Speaker 2: Yeah. Speaker 2: My parents out in my yeah. Speaker 0: Yeah. Speaker 0: Yeah. Speaker 0: So that was that was hard. Speaker 2: You have grief in your life. Speaker 2: You have had some familiarity with it. Speaker 2: Yeah. Speaker 2: This is not your first experience. Speaker 0: Right. Speaker 0: Yeah. Speaker 0: No. Speaker 0: And then the other photo, this is my father. Speaker 0: I can't remember. Speaker 0: He, like I told you, he was always volunteering, getting involved. Speaker 0: He actually went to Ottawa and got, caring caring Speaker 0: Canadian award.

40:35 Speaker 0: Wow. Speaker 2: Is that what the medals are for? Speaker 0: I'm like, oh, wow. Speaker 0: So so he got medals as being a caring Canadian, and he got, Speaker 0: I think, the the governor general at the time I think his last name Speaker 0: was Johnson. Speaker 0: I can't remember his first name. Speaker 2: He was the one all the governor generals. Speaker 1: Yes. Speaker 1: You got it right. Speaker 1: It was Johnson Johnson, Speaker 0: and he's the one that gave him the award and and, and all this Speaker 0: stuff. Speaker 0: And I think it was one of those things it's funny because I don't Speaker 0: know if he kind of was, like, nominated himself, but then needed somebody else Speaker 0: to officially nominate him. Speaker 0: But, you know, he was I was proud of him, and and I didn't Speaker 0: go. Speaker 0: My brother went with my mom to the ceremony. Speaker 0: I'm trying to think. Speaker 0: It was what year it was? Speaker 0: It was about was it is there a date on that?

41:17 Speaker 1: No? Speaker 1: No. Speaker 1: Still the queen? Speaker 0: Yeah. Speaker 0: It was I think it was about over ten years ago Okay. Speaker 0: When that happened. Speaker 0: Wow. Speaker 0: And, yeah. Speaker 2: Looks like a happy guy. Speaker 1: Does. Speaker 1: Looks like a salesman. Speaker 0: Yes. Speaker 0: Yeah. Speaker 2: Well, he sold himself into these awards. Speaker 0: He did. Speaker 0: I think he pretty much did. Speaker 0: That's not Speaker 2: your average salesperson. Speaker 0: No. Speaker 0: I think he did. Speaker 0: I think he yes. Speaker 1: Hearing Canadian. Speaker 1: Yes. Speaker 0: Yeah. Speaker 1: So I'm curious. Speaker 1: What's something you know, you've had all this experience with grief. Speaker 1: What's something that you think men in particular should know about grief Speaker 1: that you think not enough of Speaker 0: them do? Speaker 0: Yeah. Speaker 0: Well, the Speaker 0: the piece of the the grief part is you're right.

42:01 Speaker 0: You just don't know how you're gonna feel. Speaker 0: Actually, a piece of advice I got from a female family friend Speaker 0: was and it wasn't after my when my brother passed, almost Speaker 0: over twenty years ago or almost, was more for my father Speaker 0: because I think her her mother had passed a number of years before is Speaker 0: that, you know, you never you never really get over it. Speaker 0: You always grieve. Speaker 0: Mhmm. Speaker 0: It's just the the time frame of that grief gets shorter and shorter. Speaker 0: Like, when someone first passes, you could be a mess for days Speaker 0: or weeks or hours. Speaker 0: But over time, you know, you might just have that thirty second Speaker 0: bit of like, oh my god.

42:43 Speaker 0: I really miss my dad. Speaker 0: And you get all emotional. Speaker 0: And then twenty nine seconds later, you break you you Speaker 0: get past it. Speaker 0: So it's more of the that is the one thing that I kinda learned, Speaker 0: and and it's true. Speaker 0: Like, over time, you still remember them. Speaker 0: You still grieve, but you don't get in that emotional state for an Speaker 0: extended period of time. Speaker 0: Right. Speaker 0: I think that was the one thing that I've I've learned. Speaker 0: But then all the stuff you gotta do to do with someone's passing. Speaker 0: Oh my god. Speaker 0: No one teaches you that. Speaker 0: That's like, what the heck? Speaker 1: It was interestingly, my dad died just before Christmas, and Speaker 1: so we, you know, we had this big gap of time to do we Speaker 1: started making a checklist and but, anyways, we eventually got to the funeral home, Speaker 1: and and the guy at the funeral home said, oh, here's a binder.

43:27 Speaker 1: And he gives a binder of it was a checklist, essentially, but and also Speaker 1: everything we were supposed to do. Speaker 1: And I said, why they should give Speaker 0: it to you in the hospital. Speaker 1: Right. Speaker 1: Like Yeah. Speaker 1: Like, because you're gonna get it you're gonna get into it right away. Speaker 1: Right. Speaker 1: It's one of the things you just immediately start doing. Speaker 1: Yeah. Speaker 0: But it's you know, I thought it was fascinating. Speaker 0: It was the funeral home that has that. Speaker 0: Like, they know, and they're so organized. Speaker 0: Yeah. Speaker 0: And they're like, well, what yeah. Speaker 0: Why didn't someone tell me this beforehand? Speaker 0: Right. Speaker 0: You get to the funeral home, and they're like, oh, no. Speaker 0: This is what you need to do. Speaker 0: Yeah. Speaker 1: Was it was he buried or cremated? Speaker 1: He was buried. Speaker 1: Yeah. Speaker 1: Yeah. Speaker 1: And and in Ontario? Speaker 1: Yes. Speaker 1: Yeah. Speaker 1: What was that process like? Speaker 0: So he'd preorganize because my brother passed in two thousand and three, he'd already Speaker 0: bought a plot.

44:08 Speaker 0: So my brother was there, and then he bought a plot for for for Speaker 0: himself and for mom and, actually, for me and my other brother. Speaker 0: So there's actually, like, five together. Speaker 0: Woah. Speaker 0: And my wife said Wait. Speaker 2: He bought all of those in advance? Speaker 0: Yes. Speaker 0: Oh, yeah. Speaker 0: Yes. Speaker 0: They give you a Speaker 1: deal. Speaker 1: Yeah. Speaker 2: Was it a good yeah. Speaker 2: It was probably Speaker 0: a good sale. Speaker 0: Was. Speaker 0: Oh, I think so. Speaker 0: Because I think I I think I saw how much it cost, and, well, Speaker 0: that was back then. Speaker 0: And we think it would probably be five times as much today. Speaker 0: It's real estate. Speaker 0: You know? Speaker 0: It is real estate. Speaker 2: That's a much more what I think of as, like, traditional Speaker 0: Yeah. Speaker 2: Scenario because a lot of your grieving, I think, sometimes is influenced by movies. Speaker 2: Yeah. Speaker 2: Up until the point it happens, you're all you've seen probably is you maybe Speaker 0: again, Speaker 2: you've been you've either heard from somebody or Speaker 0: Yeah.

44:49 Speaker 0: I Speaker 2: don't even I thought about I realized I was just borrowing from Hollywood films. Speaker 1: And Guns N' Roses music video. Speaker 2: Yeah. Speaker 2: Exactly. Speaker 2: Yeah. Speaker 2: Yeah. Speaker 0: But, no, we're all there, and you're standing there over the casket. Speaker 0: And there's a hole in the ground, and they're and they did lay it Speaker 0: down, and we put roses on top of the casket. Speaker 0: And you're right. Speaker 0: So it wasn't it was in April. Speaker 0: So it was, like, two months later after his passing that he actually got Speaker 0: buried buried, and then we all went out as a family. Speaker 0: And then, you know, my my older brother was right beside him. Speaker 0: And then and then because it's from the town my mom grew up, there's Speaker 0: all these relatives that are in the same, Speaker 2: So they all came? Speaker 0: They they all came, you know, in spirit. Speaker 0: Yes. Speaker 0: They were all there. Speaker 1: Standing on your burial.

45:30 Speaker 1: Yes. Speaker 1: Yes. Speaker 1: Yeah. Speaker 1: Exactly. Speaker 1: Exactly. Speaker 2: That does sound a lot like a Hollywood film with the Speaker 0: red rose. Speaker 0: Oh, yeah. Speaker 0: We found okay. Speaker 0: Yes. Speaker 0: We did. Speaker 0: Yeah. Speaker 0: We put roses on his casket before it went down into the whole into Speaker 0: the ground. Speaker 0: Yeah. Speaker 0: Interesting. Speaker 0: Hey. Speaker 0: Yeah. Speaker 0: We we didn't get Speaker 1: we didn't get to experience that. Speaker 0: But there's not tons of people, and I don't think everyone was fully wearing Speaker 0: black. Speaker 0: Like, it was Speaker 2: Yeah. Speaker 2: Some small nuances. Speaker 0: Yes. Speaker 0: There's some new ones. Speaker 0: No black veils, but there was limousine here. Speaker 1: Line of limousines? Speaker 0: No. Speaker 0: There's not a lot of limit. Speaker 0: I don't think there's a single limousine. Speaker 0: No. Speaker 0: And we we pulled up in cars, and I think we drove on other Speaker 0: people's grays. Speaker 0: Like, you know Oh, really? Speaker 0: Well, I don't know. Speaker 0: It's just kinda like this Speaker 2: I see why you're blocking this out.

46:13 Speaker 0: They're like, where are we park here? Speaker 0: There's all these stones everywhere. Speaker 0: Where do we go? Speaker 0: Yeah. Speaker 0: Where am I parked on? Speaker 1: So, Tiff, you've, you've been so generous with your time and and sharing so Speaker 1: many amazing stories. Speaker 1: We wanted to ask you a few kind of, you know, rapid fire type Speaker 1: sharing questions, which is odd doing rapid fire when talking Speaker 2: about thoughts, Speaker 1: I think. Speaker 1: Talking about yeah. Speaker 0: Yeah. Speaker 0: Yeah. Speaker 1: Curious, you know, what do you miss most about your dad? Speaker 0: He was just such a strong, good person. Speaker 0: I just I'm I actually, probably the thing I miss the most is not Speaker 0: being able to spend more like, I I miss the fact that I didn't Speaker 0: spend more time with him in his final days because I lived out here, Speaker 0: and he lived three thousand miles away. Speaker 0: Right. Speaker 0: So I think that's what I miss the most.

46:54 Speaker 0: Like, I was thinking before coming here that, Speaker 0: you know, you you get into our age, and you're probably financially in a Speaker 0: better position than you were twenty years ago, or hopefully you are. Speaker 0: Right? Speaker 0: And there was a point in my last few years of my dad's life Speaker 0: where he was like he said that he one of his lifetime goals would Speaker 0: go to the Galapagos. Speaker 0: Mhmm. Speaker 0: And so I remember him telling me this, like, twenty years ago. Speaker 0: Yeah. Speaker 0: And I was like and then about a number of years ago, I'm like, Speaker 0: jeez. Speaker 0: I'm in a position now. Speaker 0: I could financially take my dad to the Galapagos. Speaker 0: But now he's like but when I got to that position, it was like, Speaker 0: oh, he's too old now. Speaker 0: Yeah. Speaker 0: He's in his age. Speaker 0: Frail. Speaker 0: And he doesn't want to do that. Speaker 0: He doesn't wanna go to the states because of health care costs and what Speaker 0: ifs.

47:35 Speaker 0: Right. Speaker 0: Right? Speaker 0: So I was kinda like, so that's not gonna happen. Speaker 0: That's I'm really bummed out. Speaker 0: Yeah. Speaker 0: I couldn't make that happen. Speaker 0: I wanted to make that happen for my dad. Speaker 2: So spending time. Speaker 0: Just spending time. Speaker 0: Just spending time. Speaker 0: Yeah. Speaker 0: Yeah. Speaker 1: Is there one thing you wish you said to him before he died? Speaker 0: No. Speaker 0: I because I think I said a lot of it over the years. Speaker 0: I'd always like birthday cards and Christmas and just I would write Speaker 0: my dad and say, dad, I'm thank you very much. Speaker 0: Thank you for being the person you are. Speaker 0: That's great. Speaker 0: You've helped me, I think, be a pretty good person. Speaker 0: Sorry. Speaker 0: That's something I'm tooting my own horn here. Speaker 0: But I think it's just he's just helped me be Speaker 0: who I am today, which I think is a positive thing. Speaker 0: So That's great. Speaker 0: I would thank him for that.

48:16 Speaker 0: Yeah. Speaker 2: Is there something that he did that bothered you? Speaker 2: And I don't mean, like, huge. Speaker 2: I just mean, like, my dad used to just constantly have this terrible expression. Speaker 2: Oh. Speaker 2: He'd say, a job worth doing is worth doing well, and Speaker 0: he would do it at the worst Speaker 2: times. Speaker 2: Right. Speaker 2: And he would just, like, I'd be sweeping, and he would do that. Speaker 2: And I'm kinda fascinated by there are sometimes these things Speaker 0: Right. Speaker 2: That that are there that live with you forever. Speaker 0: Yeah. Speaker 0: There'd be times where he was just too damn serious in life, where he's Speaker 0: like, we gotta get this stuff done. Speaker 0: I'd be like, dad, fuck it. Speaker 0: Have a sense excuse my language. Speaker 0: No. Speaker 0: Have a sense of humor. Speaker 0: Come on. Speaker 0: Let's just it's okay. Speaker 0: Chill out. Speaker 0: It doesn't have to be done.

48:57 Speaker 0: We can do that. Speaker 0: Like, just it's okay. Speaker 0: Enjoy. Speaker 0: I didn't see he was very serious. Speaker 0: He had a good sense of humor, but he didn't laugh as much as Speaker 0: I'd like to have seen him laugh. Speaker 0: Mhmm. Speaker 0: Because Speaker 0: and I think part of it is because I think he felt like it Speaker 0: was his responsibility to be serious and be Speaker 0: the man of the house and do things that help others. Speaker 0: And maybe sometimes laughter and joy wasn't part of that. Speaker 0: It was like getting things done. Speaker 0: And I think that's that old school sort of mentality. Speaker 0: Right? Speaker 0: Definitely. Speaker 0: Yeah. Speaker 1: Yep. Speaker 1: What is something that you just immediately think about and start laughing Speaker 1: about when when it comes to him?

49:41 Speaker 0: So so a funny story was that my wife Speaker 0: and I were visiting my parents. Speaker 0: And, at the time, I'm, in my thirties, Speaker 0: and my father's, I guess, at the time oh, jeez. Speaker 0: Somewhere in the seventies. Speaker 0: Whatever. Speaker 0: Anyway, this is before we had my wife and I had kids, and we've Speaker 0: been together, I think, six or eight months. Speaker 0: And we're visiting for about ten days. Speaker 0: I think it's about three days in. Speaker 0: And the cottage is about thirty minutes away from the closest Speaker 0: town. Speaker 0: And one day, I. Speaker 0: My dad's like, I'm running going into town to run some errands. Speaker 0: I go go to my dad on the side. Speaker 0: Hey, dad. Speaker 0: Could you get some condoms for me? Speaker 0: I mean, I had to get up the gumption just to ask my father.

50:22 Speaker 0: I'm no I'm a grown man. Speaker 0: He's a grown man, but still, asking, you know, dad to go buy his Speaker 0: condoms is like I was like, I don't know. Speaker 0: He's like, oh, yeah, sure. Speaker 0: No problem. Speaker 0: Like, he didn't even blank. Speaker 0: Didn't even explain. Speaker 2: He didn't even blank. Speaker 0: He was only in Saigon. Speaker 0: Yes. Speaker 0: Yes. Speaker 0: Yes. Speaker 0: I'm very well. Speaker 0: I taught him well. Speaker 0: So he goes, and he comes back. Speaker 0: And, like, couple hours later after done all those errands, and he's like he's Speaker 0: like it's like, Tiff. Speaker 0: So go to the he's like, so okay. Speaker 0: Young, attractive woman that I had to ask to find out where they are. Speaker 0: That was odd. Speaker 0: I was like, oh, dad. Speaker 0: I'm sure you were a gentleman. Speaker 0: But I said, oh, yeah. Speaker 0: That's fine. Speaker 0: He's like, but I got it. Speaker 0: So we're all good. Speaker 0: And he hands me a box Speaker 1: of forty condoms.

51:04 Speaker 0: At Costco. Speaker 0: And I was just like I'm like, thank dad. Speaker 0: I'm like really impressed that you think that's gonna happen happen that much. Speaker 0: I'm only here for Speaker 2: a few more days. Speaker 2: Can I here's a follow-up question? Speaker 2: They're sized. Speaker 2: Did he did he flatter you? Speaker 2: Or is he Punished Speaker 0: you. Speaker 0: Too he'd punish me. Speaker 0: It's a bit too realistic in my opinion. Speaker 0: The fact he gave me a box of forty, I was like, oh my Speaker 0: my wife thinks it's hilarious too. Speaker 0: She and I then I come back, honey, check out the size of the Speaker 0: box you bought. Speaker 1: Amazing. Speaker 1: If someone just lost their dad yesterday Yeah. Speaker 0: What would you say to them? Speaker 0: Wow. Speaker 0: They lost it yesterday.

51:44 Speaker 0: Stay positive. Speaker 0: I think that's the number one thing. Speaker 0: Stay positive. Speaker 0: It'll be okay. Speaker 0: You'll get through it. Speaker 0: Well, Tiff, Speaker 1: thank you so much for sharing Yep. Speaker 1: George for introducing us to George. Speaker 1: Thank you so much for sharing your experience. Speaker 1: I think it's been incredibly valuable to learn about your experience, and Speaker 1: we really appreciate being as, you know, vulnerable as as you have been. Speaker 2: Absolutely. Speaker 2: I wanna say thank you as well because, again, top of the podcast, I Speaker 2: mentioned this. Speaker 2: You stepped forward right away. Speaker 0: Mhmm. Speaker 0: Right. Speaker 2: And things that I didn't know at that time that your mom had passed, Speaker 2: that your brother had passed, like, we're going through some time Right. Speaker 2: That you've had to. Speaker 2: And you're doing that with somebody with whom you don't know that well.

52:26 Speaker 2: And so thank you for having the trust. Speaker 0: Yeah. Speaker 0: The Speaker 2: trust that we could find some humor and find some interest and joy, Speaker 2: but also just to let us hear a little bit more. Speaker 2: And and I I really mean this. Speaker 2: I appreciate it. Speaker 0: Thank you. Speaker 0: Well, if I'd walked into some small dingy basement with crappy little Speaker 0: microphones, I'd be a bit more concerned. Speaker 0: But this is all, like, a professional Speaker 0: cover. Speaker 0: No. Speaker 0: Thank you. Speaker 0: Thanks very much. Speaker 0: Bathroom. Speaker 0: Yeah. Speaker 0: No. Speaker 0: Actually, I and I think this is this is something my father would probably Speaker 0: have done for his father if the technology existed or probably did. Speaker 0: But, you know, he probably would have done the same thing if he's given Speaker 0: the opportunity because I think it's about, you know, respecting them and and Speaker 0: learning from them and Yeah.

53:11 Speaker 0: Honoring them at some level. Speaker 0: Yeah. Speaker 2: Thanks so much. Speaker 2: Pleasure. Speaker 2: Thank Speaker 0: you very much. Speaker 0: Absolutely. Speaker 0: Appreciate it.